Archive for June, 2015

DM-twentyseven for ut4

Duel/small FFA (3-4player) map

If this map continues the below will update.

This map is a intended to be a departure from more recent ut duel map trends in the unreal universe. It is an attempt to create a map that plays in a similar way to the original ut popular duel maps while “fixing” some of the potential problems those maps had. Codex. Curse. Turbine. Grinder. Agony. Tempest and so on. These have always been popular maps and two names pop up reliably when discussing “best” dm maps from ut99 or the ut series in general. No delusions here, my map will never be that quality but the hope is to produce something decent.

This is where ut duel was born and more importantly this is where the ut ruleset originated. Sadly the game never stuck with this style of map, moving towards a more aerowalk/roughinery layout in general as time went by.

The map is an attempt to combine the ut99 style with some interesting quake aspects, primarily the lack of vertical travel via large stairs/ramps – instead shifting the vertical component to bounce pads, teleports and because this is ut, lifts.

Cut offs that feel deliberate are awesome and landing damage on enemy players is satisfying. This is a big part of what the teleports, jump pads and the map in general is aiming for.

Finally maps with one location of control like ASDF as sad. dm-twentyseven is quite small and fairly open, however LOS restrictions, along with movement options (rather restrictions) it will play larger than it feels, at least that is the plan.

ut4 audio is bad, Epic are aware of this and have it in the pipeline for fixing. The map features added a set of audio queues to the map using the foliage footstep sounds. These are placed where setting them off results in potentially faster movement, thus trade offs for the player to consider. Fast – noise, slower – quiet. Originally these were graphically an ivy mesh from the outside set, however the current build does not have the asset required and they have been changed to green blobs. Rustle at your peril.

The map has some fairly long los areas. Pillars and other additions are primarily there to limit these. The stand out that may be problematic is from the red tele exit through the center hall way. Not sure if this is too far.

Basically anything to do with the item load out and how it plays. To my knowledge no dm maps, and especially no duel maps have strayed from belt/jacket/pads and when they do it is via omission rather than extras or double ups.

I get horrible performance compared to epics shells.

Map load out

This is an attempt to use the ut item set to improve duel.

2x Jackets
1x Thighpads
1x Keg(+50, 40 second spawn)*
2x Rocket Launchers (2 ammo)
2x Shock Rifles (2 ammo)
1x Pulse (1 ammo)
1x Sniper
1x Bio (2 ammo)

*This might be controversial but it is included to clash frequently with the 30 second items.

Two jackets and short keg is intended to tie up the in control players time. With weapon pairs the same is intended – to deny shock or rockets requires two pickups. The lack of ammo is also intended to push players to control both weapons if they want to use more frequently.

Known issues/bugs
The three vial center connection has invisible snags in the air. This was sort of there in editor but worse after pakking the map.
Some stairs unclipped.
Some clipped stairs still snag.

Known issues/bugs
The three vial center connection has invisible snags in the air.
Some stairs unclipped.
Some clipped stairs still snag.
No bot support

Unreal Tournament burst potential and duel

-AEnubis-: Not really sure I follow. If you have double the effective hit points, and weapons are balanced, being aggressive, I should need to land double the shots. Basically, have twice the aim.

Part of the problem is the weapon potential burst vs player stack in ut.

In ql burst is very controlled compared to ut. Uninterrupted plasma from close range (20dmg 100ms refire). Direct rockets (100dmg). Full shotgun hit (110 all pellets). LG ambush (6dmg 100ms refire). Keep in mind plasma/lg can be dodged after the attack commences and less than the damage of a rocket may hit. Landing 5 plasma balls puts it on par with a single rocket. Rail is not listed as it is significantly less and you cannot ambush at close range then push the fight due to reload.

These are weapons players can use to equalise stack vs an in control player. In a 200/200 vs 100/150 secnario any of these put the down player on a much more even footing. ~170/130 vs 100/150. The absolute maximum a player can give from an ambush before their opponent realises is around 25-35% of maximum stack. 35% being plasma at close range which is not a common occurrence. In ut top end burst is high in comparison. Full flak, multiple rockets (traditionally, not currently), combos, charged bio, headshots. All these options remove 100% of a belt. Even flak alt in its current state does 100-190 damage. Not as reliable but the potential is there.

Taking this further, these weapons remove more than just the belt. A player with belt can be left with no armor and sub 50 health.

You don’t have to hit twice the shots, you need to deal twice the damage, which in ut terms can occur in a single hit.

The high burst nature of the ut weapons is fun and is partially why weapon balance and the armor system are less important than in quakelive. However it does change the above aspect of the game. If double the effective hit points meant double the shots landed I would agree. However it does not and has never meant that in ut terms.

In duel a player in control (100/belt) being ambushed by these burst weapons will be on an even footing after one hit of the higher damage weapons.

Unreal Tournament 4 duel / weapon duel balance

Previous ut4 belt post. More fun from the thread that keeps on giving. Is the shieldbelt OP? These guys are cool but there is some serious cognitive dissonance going on in both these posts when considering the rest of the ut franchise.

nuxx: That isn’t the argument, the argument is the chance of winning a fight by rushing with one of the weapons from a bad position and no armor is big. Of course it should be possible but it happens so frequently some players are beginning to abuse it.

Why is the chance big. The player in question has bad position (assuming heavy +forward), is outstacked and is playing against a player in a potentially defensive location. Why is this player winning consistently if the skill gap (aim/movement specifically) is close. It is not because of the weapons or movement – bother players have access to similar pickups. In the secnario I am describing the stacked, better positioned player should win. Will they take damage? Sure, but they shouldn’t die unless they completely fail in execution.

Why is this occurring? I could take some guesses but they would be overly verbose and wordy and in the end come down to two things. 1) A +forward aim heavy play style is easy. Any player with aim from any arena fps could play this way. The alternative is more nuanced, takes longer to develop and is crippled by 2) its alpha. The alternative play style benefits from things like a good audio system, learning maps heavily (compared to +forward). Yes weapon balance does play a part here but even with a modest stack advantage and firing second the player with belt should kill their opponent if they are truly in a “bad position”.

Are the movement and weapons iffy? Sure. However they are not overbalanced to the point where good positioning, stack and player awareness are completely negated by +forward rockets. If they were threads about max stack being too much (when it was only 50 more than current) and belt being OP would not exist because players would get weapon -> kill opponent regardless of everything.

Flikswich: You should be able to kill someone with more armour by out-skilling/out-positioning them. But right now it’s far too easy :/ You can still have that kind of dynamic, where a player with better aim, skill and positioning can beat a fully stacked player, but it should be a risk to take those fights, not a standard tactic.

Duel in ut is built around naked* vs stacked fights. Perhaps there are times, especially early in a map, where jacket plays off against belt but in general there is no middle ground because the control game is essentially two items – belt and jacket. This is further masked by the delayed/staggered spawn system that is currently in use. With both items ut respawn times it is far too easy to control two pickups but this has always been the case. This is why max stack has been so heavily scrutinized on this forum, even if posters do not realise why they do it. Its shallow. High damage weapons are the only reason ut duel has ever worked.

By virtue of the armor/health system ut duel has always had “that kind of dynamic” and it is essentially the staple for out of control play for the past 15 years.

Look, ut duelers attribute much skill/difficulty to controlling the belt and jacket. In reality this is a simple task, similar to having red+mega^ which is not super challenging. Perhaps the ut duel player pool is so shallow that this is a difficult task. I don’t know. ut has never had meaningful out of control stacking. It has never had a reliable way for the out of control player to lower stack differential outside of damage. What you are describing is the status quo. I know you are fond of 2k4 weapon mechanics but the same two item scenario exists for duel there as well.

I don’t think the belt is OP in any way. It might also sound like I am disagreeing with either of you <3. Not really at all 🙂 The game needs more depth but it also needs to change the armor/health system from the archaic mess they are now. * Single pad pickup is so weak it is hardly worth mentioning for the out of control player. ^ Not exactly due to damage output and whatnot, but the two items in ql are "harder" to control due to 25/35. [wp_ad_camp_1]